Episode 3: Connecting Faith-Based Advocates and Lawmakers (Plus: Resources to Address Christian Nationalism)

Real people making a real difference come to the fore in Episode 3 of Here I Pod from ELCA advocacy, delving into how faith-based advocates can engage in shaping public policy and drive meaningful community engagement. Featuring the Rev. Erin Jones and advocacy efforts in Pennsylvania, join the discussion of how people get involved and hear from state Rep. Carol Hill-Evans of Pennsylvania’s 95th legislative District, who illuminates the advocacy experience from the point of view of a state lawmaker. We also delve into the challenges posed by Christian nationalism, highlighting the importance of and tools for navigating this complex landscape, and gain insights into the transformative power of Dietrich Bonhoeffer's theology and its continued relevance to contemporary Christian faith. 

Take action today and message your representatives at the ELCA Advocacy Action Center. Receive new alerts by email by signing up here:  ELCA.org/advocacy/signup.

Review and download the Bonhoeffer curriculum developed by Dr. Lori Brandt Hale - "Lessons from Dietrich Bonhoeffer in a House Divided and a World on Fire," at lutheranadvocacypa.org/bonhoeffer.

Featured Guest: 

Rev. Erin Jones, Communications and Advocacy Engagement Manager, Lutheran Advocacy Ministry in Pennsylvania  

History Segment Host:  

Joey Chin, ELCA Hunger Advocacy Fellow 

Special Guests 

State Representative Carol Hill-Evans, Pennsylvania 95th legislative district 

Here I Pod is a production of ELCA Advocacy.

Host: Regina Q. Banks
Production: Blake Chastain, Joey Chin, Karen Krueger
Intro/Outro Music: "A Mighty Fortress is Our God" arranged in jazz-style, by Steven Seigart

About the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America:
The ELCA is one of the largest Christian denominations in the United States, with 2.8 million members in more than 8,500 worshiping communities across the 50 states and in the Caribbean region. Known as the church of “God’s work. Our hands.,” the ELCA emphasizes the saving grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ, unity among Christians and service in the world. The ELCA’s roots are in the writings of the German church reformer Martin Luther.

Transcript

Blake Chastain (00:00)
From ELCA Advocacy, this is Here I Pod.

There's so much happening in our communities every week and every day that are impacted by policies at the local, state, and federal levels. Here I Pod will focus on one aspect of what's happening each episode by talking with faith-based advocates, as well as providing steps that you can take in your own advocacy efforts. In episode three, you'll hear a conversation in two parts between our host, Regina Banks,

and Reverend Erin Jones from Lutheran Advocacy Ministry in Pennsylvania. In the first part, they discuss training advocates to meet with their representatives. You'll then hear a short conversation between Reverend Jones and Pennsylvania State Representative Carol Hill-Evans about what it's like for a representative to hear from faith-based advocates from their own constituency. In the second part of the conversation between Regina Banks and Reverend Jones, they discuss Christian nationalism.

as well as a Bonhoeffer resource that LAMPa developed for use in churches. This is followed by our history segment with Hunger Advocacy Fellow, Joey Chin. To get us started, let's hear from Regina Banks.

Regina Banks (01:18)
This week I have with me the Reverend Erin Jones, Communication and Advocacy Engagement Manager at Lutheran Advocacy Ministries in Pennsylvania. Good morning, Erin or afternoon in Pennsylvania.

Rev. Erin Jones (01:30)
It is

afternoon here. The timey-wimey thing that happens when we come together virtually. Glad to be with you in any time though, Regina.

Regina Banks (01:39)
Yeah.

Absolutely. So Lutheran Advocacy Ministries Pennsylvania is one of our state public policy offices. How long have you been with LAMPa?

Rev. Erin Jones (01:52)
I have been with LAMPa now for about a year and a half on staff. I was on our policy council a year before that as well. So it's been kind of crazy two and a half years together, but we're getting settled and are coming together for the work.

Regina Banks (02:07)
Lovely. And we get to claim you a little bit out here in California too because you used to serve on the policy council of LOPP as well right?

Rev. Erin Jones (02:15)
I did when I was in seminary at Pacific Lutheran Theological Seminary. I served on the policy council there and then I had my first call in Southern California, so, in Hemet, so, and grew up in Riverside. So yeah, really I'm a Californian at heart. Yeah.

Regina Banks (02:28)
Absolutely, we'll take credit for you. Absolutely. Well,

we're meeting today on March 18th and yesterday we were together on a training for the people in our respective states, California and Pennsylvania, for a virtual lobby day that's going to happen next week. Do you want to tell me a little bit about that?

Rev. Erin Jones (02:48)
Yeah, we are working with our DC office with Andrew Fuller, especially to activate advocates in Pennsylvania and California to meet with their congressional representatives, especially on the budget reconciliation process that's happening at the federal level.

Andrew, I'm sure, can give a much more technical answer if anyone wants to email him. But from my perspective, it's about connecting our advocates on the ground to their lawmakers, especially so their lawmakers can hear stories about how potential cuts to much needed programs would affect the people in our communities.

Regina Banks (03:25)
Where did the idea for this virtual lobby day come from?

Rev. Erin Jones (03:28)
I think it came from Andrew wanting more work to do, guess. don't know. No, it came from a collaboration between our DC offices and our state offices to seeing how our advocates, our people in our congregations are really

Regina Banks (03:32)
Hahaha

Rev. Erin Jones (03:48)
feeling the need to engage more in advocacy in the current administration, feeling like their voices have not been heard in normal ways. And so this provides an opportunity and a collaboration among our offices to raise up

our advocates voices in a new way, in a different way, in a more intentional way than we have been in the past. So I know I hear from our advocates, our pastors, our lay leaders about a feeling of like helplessness in the face of all that's going on.

not only cuts to programs, but a lot of the actions this administration is taking and feeling like their lawmakers aren't hearing them. So I think these visits will provide even a virtual face-to-face interaction where not only are the advocates made real to their lawmakers, but also their lawmakers' offices are made real to

to our advocates, right, that there's a real relationship that can be built.

Regina Banks (04:49)
That's

a good point that I always emphasize that you want to be able to make your voice heard to the legislator. But in fact these are just if you don't go to the town halls or if there's no town halls that are held these are just names that you see on in the newspaper or on the news. They're not real people to us and in fact they are real people most of whom are trying to be good public servants. There were caught up in exciting times all of us. So making that.

Rev. Erin Jones (05:00)
Thank you.

Mm-hmm.

Regina Banks (05:16)
making that connection on the human level so important. What was the turnout like in your training?

Rev. Erin Jones (05:19)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so we have over 70 people signed up to do meetings with their lawmakers. We had about 30 attend live the training and that is more than we would expect in

any other time for something like this. And so we are really seeing people activated and taking hold of opportunities that are presented to them in ways we didn't anticipate. Last year we had, for our state level lobby day, we had 200 people participate.

Regina Banks (05:53)
Oh wow.

Rev. Erin Jones (05:53)
Yeah, and so we're anticipating at least that this year as well. you know, 70 for a one off, like we didn't even really put it out to our whole network. We kind of targeted people who we knew were interested in the budget reconciliation process, which is, you know, a niche area. And so the fact that we still got 70 people is a

Regina Banks (06:11)
Yeah, more.

Rev. Erin Jones (06:19)
telling about how people are feeling the need to engage.

Regina Banks (06:24)
Yeah, it's not a competition at all. And also I heard you say 200, so that's our number to beat here in California.

Rev. Erin Jones (06:30)
Yeah, which is, hard, especially in California, because you have the state lobby days or the days where our state public policy offices connect our advocates to their state legislators. And so in California, yeah, you got to get people from San Diego up to Sacramento. Yeah.

Regina Banks (06:46)
and from Reading down,

yes, yes, the geography works against us.

Rev. Erin Jones (06:51)
Yeah, absolutely.

ELCA Advocacy (06:52)
We'll return to the rest of Regina and Erin's conversation in just a moment. Now we'll hear a short interview Reverend Jones had with a Pennsylvania State representative. Here's Erin.

Rev. Erin Jones (07:01)
Can you just say who you are and where you're serving?

Rep. Carol Hill-Evans (07:05)
I am state representative Carol Hill-Evans. I serve the 95th legislative district, which is located in York County. That includes the city of York as a whole, all of Spring Garden, West York and North York. And I serve about 64, 65,000 people. I've been in this position for, I'm in my ninth year. So my fifth term, the beginning of my fifth term.

I still feel very blessed and very honored to be able to serve. I never saw myself being here, but now being here, it continues to be an honor every day.

Rev. Erin Jones (07:43)
Excellent. Thank you so much for your service in that in that way. We have so many people of faith who are, you know, just entering into this advocacy world. What memories do you have of people of faith coming and meeting with you as a state lawmaker?

Rep. Carol Hill-Evans (08:02)
First, must say, I forget the gentleman's name, but he is a minister. He and his wife both minister to legislators, and they come into the office. So the first time I met him, I was really surprised, because I didn't know that there was even a position that helped in this way, that offered those services. And it's hard to know at times if you are dealing with a person of faith.

A lot of times you say, you just know instantly, but you don't always know because really in this kind of an environment, a lot of times I think there are those of us who I won't say we hide it, but we certainly don't put it as us in the very beginning. It's something that you grow to know, or you have a conversation and in that conversation it comes out, you know, they'll say, they talk about their blessings.

We're talking about just the honor of being here and of service and what it means to them and the kind of impact that they want to have on other people's lives, which is to me about service and how you serve. And so it would have been the pastor who came in, handed me a card, said, I want you to know that we pray for you. And I was just kind of moved almost to tears. I didn't even know that. I mean, I knew that I was

I feel covered. I know that I'm covered. But I didn't know that there were actually people who don't know me that are just out there praying for me. And it just was a sense of comfort. It gave me a feeling of energy. And it just gave me purpose, you know, knowing that what I'm doing, I must be doing something right, because people are actually praying for my success. And so

That was just, that was a good feeling. It really was.

Rev. Erin Jones (09:53)
Oh, I love that. And what a simple thing for people to be able to do. Like just pray for your lawmakers and let them know, right? Like, that feels like such a so attainable in this time. What, what do see people of faith doing in your district? And how does the work that you see that they are doing? How does that

kind of weave into the work that you are doing as a state lawmaker?

Rep. Carol Hill-Evans (10:20)
So I see the church especially Union Lutheran who has a tremendous ministry especially street ministry and community ministry and they do so much so much for the community places where I mean times when people want to hold events, but they don't have the space and Pastor Joel is always there saying, you know, you can use our space he does things for I actually attended one of his services and

It took me back to when I was a child, when I was a kid going into, you we would go around as our Sunday school would go visit other Sunday schools and then we would go to their churches. And just the, I want to say pomp and circumstance, all of the kind of respect for, because I'm a Methodist. we have, and so as a Methodist, we have certain methods that we use. And so, you know, it was

different, but it was still just as meaningful. Having visited so many other churches, I think we've lost a lot of that. You know, saying that, you know, the Lord's Prayer at a certain time, doing the the creed at a certain time, you know, the voices I grew up with big choirs and lots of voices and

we would sing the Amens not just say Amen and keep it moving. And it was comforting to know that that still exists, that people still do do that, just that. And even at my own church, same church, Methodist Church, we've gone the way of just cutting back on some of the doxologies and things like that, that were so purposeful and meaningful, even though we didn't understand it as kids.

We knew that it was part of our service and part of our worship. And it made me wish for those times again, but I still, understand that people change, times change, and that's just not what folks are looking for anymore. So I attend a church now, not as a member, but just as a guest. I go there often because I feel the spirit.

And that's what I really need and that's what I'm looking for. And there's so many others who feel the same way. And so it doesn't matter if you're at an altar because there is no real altar. It doesn't matter. You can kneel right where you are. You can stand right where you are. You can still get that same feeling. And so watching these churches that do so much in the community as a legislator, it lets me know what the real need is.

I can see that need through the ministries that they do, whether it's a food ministry, whether it's a clothing ministry, whether it's just a pastoral ministry where they're going out and just having the word in church or in a park. It lets me know where the need is and then I can direct my energies when I'm here on those pieces of legislation where we can make a difference, whether it's for the elderly.

whether it's for our veterans, whether it's for our homeless, it lets me know through seeing these ministries where we need to put our energies and our dollars. And so it is helpful. But you have to be out there, you have to go around, you have to know what these churches are doing in order to be able to, affect the change that's necessary.

Rev. Erin Jones (13:47)
Yeah, that's such a beautiful way of putting right what we hope happens. So if, let's say someone's coming and meeting with your office for the first time, say on May 13th, Lutheran Day in the Capitol where we have, I know a number from your district that'll be there that day. What advice would you give them as they prepare to come in and talk with you or a staffer or another lawmaker?

Rep. Carol Hill-Evans (14:13)
Don't be nervous, just come in, be yourself, relax, get to the point because we all have, I mean, our schedules are just, they become just sometimes unbearable, not unbearable, just a little unmanageable, I'll put it that way. And so just get to the point. If you have an ask, make that ask, introduce yourselves, be yourself, don't be intimidated. We are people just like, know, they're people.

We just happened to be elected officials because that was our calling. And so we're here to serve. We are here to serve and to listen. But you do have to be pretty succinct in what your ask is and what your mission is about. But don't be afraid to ask. Just come in, relax, be yourself. Get your message out there and

If you have information, make sure that you share that information. If you have concerns, make sure that you're sharing those concerns. This might be the one and only time that people have actually had an opportunity to sit down with an elected official, at least at the state level. And so make the most of it. Make the most of it, yes. If we've accepted your invitation, we're here to listen. And so just, we wanna hear what you have to say. So don't be afraid to say it.

Hahaha!

Rev. Erin Jones (15:35)
Excellent. That's so great. Anything else you want to say? I won't take up much more of your time.

Rep. Carol Hill-Evans (15:40)
No, I'm just honored to, you know, to be part of this. As a Christian woman, it is an honor. It's not always as easy as saying, Hi, I'm a Christian. It's more living it and making sure that your work reflects it that you don't lose sight of who you are. As a Christian person.

This is an environment that is, it's overpowering at times just because of the enormity of the building, because of the history in the building, because of the jobs that we are here, that we're sent here to do. And everybody has their own way of doing things and they have their own opinions. It's just important for me to stay grounded, to remain true to who I am,

without becoming somebody that someone else might want me to be. And just staying true to, the God that I serve and feeling that covering and just one foot in front of the other, knowing that He's right there with me.

Rev. Erin Jones (16:48)
Thank you so much.

Rep. Carol Hill-Evans (16:49)
you're more than welcome.

ELCA Advocacy (16:51)
And now we'll return to the remainder of the conversation between our host Regina Banks and Erin Jones. Here they are.

Regina Banks (16:58)
But what else have you been working on in Pennsylvania? I know that your office has been working quite intentionally on Christians Against Christian nationalism. Can you tell us a little bit about the projects you've been doing around that issue?

Rev. Erin Jones (17:11)
Yeah, here in Pennsylvania.

is a place where we see kind of Christian nationalism on the ground. It has some real strongholds here. And for people who aren't super familiar, Christian nationalism is this worldview that enmeshes Christian symbolism with nationalist policies that consolidate political, social, economic power in

a very tiny portion of people, usually white, male, cis.

Christian with quotes around that. And so we see that on the ground. An example that I have just experienced just these last couple of weeks on my drive to drop off my kids. There's a house that has a flagpole in its front yard. At the top of the flagpole is the American flag. And then the flag underneath that is a picture of Jesus. And it's like Swedish Jesus, right? Like with the blond hair. And you see

Regina Banks (18:05)
You

Rev. Erin Jones (18:07)
Golgotha behind him with the three crosses and he's hugging a flag. So that sort of enmeshment of a white Christian identity with an American...

exceptionalism is kind of what we're talking about. So we've been really concerned about that. We see that all over Pennsylvania. And so just a couple weeks ago, we had an event in partnership with United Lutheran Seminary in Gettysburg.

where we invited Amanda Tyler, who's the main organizer of Christians Against Christian Nationalism, and Dr. Lori Brandt Hale, who's the head of the International Bonhoeffer Society English Language Section, to talk about, number one, what is Christian nationalism? How can we respond to it as Christians? And then also, what does Dietrich Bonhoeffer, the lessons from his life and theology, what can he give us as we discern ways forward?

Thinking about World War II and the Nazi regime as one of the last times in history where Christians really grappled with this idea of responding to these nationalist fascist forces. So again, we had over 200 show up in person in Gettysburg for that event and then over a hundred live stream subscriptions, many of which we know were across the country and were congregations

viewing as a group. I would say easily 500 people engaged with that event in some way. And so we're feeling like we really...

have a lot of people who are hungry for tools at this moment for how to grapple with this. And we see, right, that how Christian nationalism is kind of like this foundation of a lot of the things that are happening at the state and the national level.

Regina Banks (19:48)
And that is an issue that we as Christians have a particular interest in but also responsibility to address. If you have no other interest in what's going on right now as a Christian, we ought to care about how that name, that moniker is being seen and used in our communities.

Rev. Erin Jones (20:07)
Yeah, Bishop Eaton, the presiding bishop of the ELCA was also at that event, you know, and she says frequently, like, Christian nationalism is neither Christian nor patriotic. And so it really distorts both the gospel message and American values, right? Things we find in our Constitution. And so, yeah, I think we as people of faith, like I want to say, like, yeah, don't use Jesus to justify hate because

Because the Jesus I have dedicated my life to, the Jesus that I follow, is one that encourages welcome of strangers and care for the vulnerable. And that's certainly not what we see happening currently.

Regina Banks (20:47)
Are the materials that you've used, are those available on your website?

Rev. Erin Jones (20:50)
Yeah,

you can go to LutheranAdvocacyPA.org. And if you just search for Bonhoeffer, a couple things will pop up: that event where you can watch the lectures and the panel discussion and Bishop Eaton preaching. And then we also have a four to six week curriculum that Dr. Brandt Hale created for congregational use, and we know

I think dozens, if not a hundred or more congregations have used that across the country. And it's been really effective for just starting conversations in places where maybe you feel like you can't have these conversations outright. But you can maybe bring up Dietrich Bonhoeffer because he's like, I don't know.

Regina Banks (21:30)
In the zeigeist. I mean, there are movies

about him and having conversations just in general. So now might be the time to have a real conversation about the lessons that are actually available from that lived experience.

Rev. Erin Jones (21:33)
I know.

Exactly, exactly.

So we've been really proud of how widespread that's been that people get to, you know, take the knowledge and the gifts that Dr. Hale has as like a...

forefront scholar made really accessible. So I've taught it in like a variety of contexts from like retired pastors down to college students and all every time I teach it people are so drawn in to Bonhoeffer's story and his theology in ways that they had never anticipated before. So it's really cool you should check it out.

Regina Banks (22:19)
Well, Erin, thank you so much for being with me.

The last question I like to ask people is where have you seen the gospel recently? Where have you seen it?

Rev. Erin Jones (22:27)
I see it when I teach, again when I teach Bonhoeffer I see people, when it clicks for people that what they feel instinctually about how what we're seeing play out is not gospel when all of sudden it clicks and they're given a vocabulary to...

to engage their faith in new ways, that's where I see the gospel play out. Because all of a sudden then they're on fire and in the best way, right? And are wanting to engage and are excited about the gifts of the church. I think so often we get like really down about like, my gosh, the church is so slow or so behind the times.

Regina Banks (22:58)
like, right.

Rev. Erin Jones (23:14)
And I think we're seeing a moment where people can be really energized by this. And I know, you know, the ELCA has been doing a lot of intentional work and I'm really excited for people to like realize that in many ways we have these tools already for them to just grab onto.

Regina Banks (23:31)
Fantastic. Reverend Erin Jones, Communication and Advocacy Engagement Manager for the Lutheran Advocacy Ministry in Pennsylvania. Thank you so much for joining me.

Rev. Erin Jones (23:41)
Thank you.

ELCA Advocacy (23:42)
For our history segment, Hunger Advocacy fellow Joey Chen builds upon what Regina and Erin just discussed in part two and shares a bit more about Bonhoeffer's legacy and what we can learn from his life and teaching today. Here's Joey.

Joey Chin (23:58)
For many Christians and Lutherans, Dietrich Bonhoeffer remains one of the most compelling figures for informing the ways in which we live out our faith today. Bonhoeffer's question: "Who is Christ for us today?" reverberates throughout our churches as we grapple with what it means to confront injustice and answer God's call in our specific time and place. One of the most formative experiences of Bonhoeffer's life was his time visiting the historically Black Abyssinian Baptist Church in Harlem.

It was there that Bonhoeffer came face to face with the immediacy of the gospel and the power of a prophetic witness. Upon returning to Germany, Bonhoeffer would emphasize turning away from an abstract ethic and towards a concrete ethic, saying "we can and should speak not about what the good is, can be, or should be for each and every time, but about how Christ may take form among us today and here." Bonhoeffer saw a tangible resistance to racism.

at Abyssinian Baptist church and joined an effort back at home to resist the rising fascist force of the Nazi regime. As these forces continued to rise, Bonhoeffer would feel the developing threat and ask his fellow Christians: "For what are we waiting?" Bonhoeffer's life and work presents us with the same question today and calls us to consider how God's grace compels us to pursue peace in our own contexts and communities.

ELCA Advocacy (25:22)
Finally, if you want to take action today, please head over to the ELCA's Action Center and use any of our active action alerts to message your own representatives. If you're listening to this around the time this episode airs, we are conducting a Lenten Action Series. You can message your representatives about a variety of issues, including, but not limited to, education, immigration, and hunger policies.

If you want to explore the Bonhoeffer curriculum Lampa has created to use within your own community, head over to LutheranAdvocacyPA.org slash Bonhoeffer. Links will be provided in the show notes. This concludes episode three of Here I Pod. If you want to contact us, email us over at ELCAadvocacypodcast at ELCA.org or leave us a voicemail at 866-740-3522.

Thank you for listening.